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This is a "discussion" that appears on my FaceBook Homepage. An old NYC comrade, Sally Belk King, started it off by taking one of the many polls, this one involving the health care controversy. I thought the discussion worth repeating here as only Sally's friends will see it on FaceBook -- and as I have strong feelings on the subject. So here it is. I've tried to make it easier to see when the 'speaker' changes -- as we don't have pictures to separate commentators on my website.



Sally Belk King voted "I Haven't Decided" in "The Health Care Poll." What's your opinion?
Sally voted "I Haven't Decided" in the Health Care Poll. A total of 145,398 have already cast their vote.

Question: "Do you support President Obama's plan to overhaul health care?"
- I Support
- I Haven't Decided
- I Oppose
14 hours ago · Comment · Like / Unlike · Vote!

Sally Belk King
I've known many folks in Austrailia and Canada where there is socialized medicine and THE STORIES ARE NOT GOOD. "Hi, oh sorry, you need a breast biopsy? Well, you can wait for 8 weeks, we just can't take you any earlier." What a tragedy....let that cancer spread and maybe you'll get covered for chemo....sorry,now you have cancer spreading ... Read Morethroughout your breasts b/c the biopsy took so long. Too bad, Missy." We need something in the middle. Please, let's be reasonable. I pay through the nose for coverage, but I don't want MY tax dollars to cover folks who eat donuts and Snickers for breaksfast, never workout and drink 3,000 calories of Coca-cola at lunch with a double order of fries. YES, we need changes, but can we take the middle-of-the-road, please?
14 hours ago
Nancy Harmon Jenkins
Nancy Harmon Jenkins
On the other hand, Sally, there are lots and lots and lots of positive stories. Usually it's about incredible care, instantaneous when necessary (I have never heard of a denial of a breast biopsy)--and it costs nothing. To my mind, this is the mark of a civil society--public education and public health care go hand in hand and we have been denied the second and seen the first go down the tubes for far too many years.
13 hours ago
Cindy Pitt Kinney
Cindy Pitt Kinney
Sally, I would strongly encourage you to read the bill. Do not rely on the media to tell you what's really in the bill. I've been reading it and I am appalled that Congress is even considering this. And I am more appalled that the media isn't in an uproar about it.

I am in the health care field and I think this is a total disaster for this ... Read Morecountry. No health care is free....someone is going to pay the frieght. And IMHO, the Constitution does not say that paying for health care is a federal prerogative.

One statistic that I keep hearing is that 40 million PEOPLE (they carefully say people) w/o insurance. Well, when you exclude the millions of illegal aliens, the healthy 20-30 somethings who don't WANT to pay for health insurance, the real number of uninsured is less than 10 million people. When you break down the proposed costs by the number of people covered, you get some astronomical number like $30K per person per year. Any way you slice that, it's ridiculous.
One other thought, there has never, in the history of our country, been a case where the actual costs of any federal program have turned out to be equal to or less than what the feds projected at the time the program was implemented. Why would anyone think health care will be any different? In fact, it will be much, much, much, more costly than ... Read Morewhat anyone in Washington is willing to admit.

But read the bill for yourself and make up your own mind. Then tell your reps in Congress what you think.
12 hours ago

Nancy Harmon Jenkins
Nancy Harmon Jenkins
Actually, if we don't do something about the sorry state of health care in this country, if we don't take control of it away from profit-making insurance companies and give it back to the people, we risk running into incredible costs. (In fact we already have.) When most of the people in America can't afford basic insurance, we face a calamitous ... Read Morefuture as a society. And the fact is that, under the present system, most people simply cannot afford basic insurance.
And by the way the Constitution doesn't say much about health care because it simply wasn't an issue when the Constitution was drawn up. The fact that it is an issue today is what we need to face--the overwhelming cost to our economy of the most basic kind of provisions and the inability of most insurance programs to cover them.
11 hours ago

Sally Belk King
Sally Belk King
NANCY: You are right...the country is in dire straits when it comes to health care. I agree that we need to take control and get rid of the greed and graft. I had ankle surgery this past winter and my net out-of-pocket was 10K. I felt the pain physically and financially. I also know friends in Cananda and Australia and have heard horror ... Read Morestories....So, somewhere in the middle (to me, anyway) lies the truth, and the best solution. I voted for Obama and believe in him...I think this will all shake out and we'll have a reasonable health care program in a few years.
CINDY: You are on target. I should read the entire bill before expressing my opinion so quickly. I have been getting info from CNN, the WSJ and the NYT ---all good sources---but I have not read the bill. Thanks for the reminder....
7 hours ago

ME:I thoroughly agree with Nancy. Our health care system is a disgrace. Admittedly, I haven’t read the 1000 page bill but you don’t need to be a policy wonk to know that something drastic has to be done to address the issue of access to health care for all. Cindy, despite the numbers you cite – and that I don’t have the information to challenge -- supporting your conclusion that the percentage of uninsured Americans is not so grave, how do you address the statistics that place the United States near the bottom of all “civilized” nations when it comes to basic health services? This bill may not be perfect. It may be full of compromises. But it’s a start. And maybe even a very good start. Sally, I just need to address your so-called “good” sources: CNN? Come on! WSJ? Really? Take a listen to Rachel Maddow, Howard Dean. And can’t you see that the violent mob scenes at the town hall meetings have nothing to do with health care? Death Panels? Socialism? Fascism? Can’t you see that hysteria has more to do with an America that is changing in a way that the protesters can’t understand and deeply fear, starting with the fact that we have a brilliant black president? I have friends who live in Canada and England and have never heard a horror story. I have been living in France for 20 years and the only horror story I know is this: I am not on the French system and pay private insurance through the Association of Americans Resident Overseas – 462 euros a month, a premium that costs more than my monthly mortgage payments. And the company can, and does, change the policy on whim. So I think we need to be unequivocal about our support for Obama’s plan. Dithering and fence sitting only helps the Palin-Limbaugh-Gingrich Party of NO.

Cindy Pitt Kinney
A couple last comments, and then I'm stepping out of this conversation. Any bill that is over 1000 pages long WILL end up with many, many unintended consequences. If health care is that important, then I submit, it's critical that it be done 'right' rather than quickly. Obama took more time to pick out a dog than Congress and he are taking to ... Read Morerestructure 1/7th of our GDP. Doncha think something this important should be thought through much more carefully? It took me longer to get separation papers drawn up than Congress and the Administration are taking to redo the health care system.

The violent mobs were not violent until the libs called out the ACORN and union thugs. Passionate disagreement was the order of the day until ACORN stepped in. The fact that most of the middle class in this country does not want this health care bill and are taking their 1st amendment rights seriously and petitioning the government for redress of wrongs should not be condemned. Those"activities were loudly praised when people were protesting the war in Iraq. So, I'm not sure I understand where protests against the war are ok but protests against this health care bill are not.

Sally, do your own research. Do not depend on the media. Make up your own mind. You are smart and talented and you don't need the media to tell you what to think. You don't need me to tell you what to think either.

Me
Obama's op-ed in today's NYT is not a bad way to start 'educating' yourself. And the 400+ comments are worth reading as well. I wonder how Cindy can justify the outrageous profits made by the insurance industry. And, even though I live overseas, I don't recall anti-war protests hanging government officials in effigy, or talk show hosts joking about... Read More poisoning the Speaker of the House, or systematic efforts -- of which health care is one very important example -- by the party out of power to sabotage the presidency. Obama won. Get over it.

A postscript: I don’t mean to say that there aren’t health issues deserving public debate. But those issues aren’t being debated now. There is no debate because the protesters aren’t really protesting proposed changes in health care; they’re protesting the fact that Obama was elected president. And they are showing up at town hall meetings with guns – which reminds some of us of Dr. Tiller; they are yelling and howling and not allowing anyone to speak. When anti-war protesters demonstrated, on the other hand, they were manifesting their disapproval of specific policy decisions, not the least of which involved a big lie that got us into a big war which brought about a big deficit.